Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:29:37 -0800
From: Reg Gooden <rgooden@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu>
Organization: Cal Poly State University
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Kathy Kaiser <kkaiser@csuchico.edu>, Bob Cherny
<cherny@sfsu.edu>,
Jackie Kegley
<jkegley@csubak.edu>, David McNeil <dmcneil@sjsu.edu>,
Bob Snyder
<ras1@humboldt.edu>
CC: Reginald Gooden <rgooden@calpoly.edu>
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: RE: FW: Pending resolution
on removing first-term
language course
s
from
GE C2 bl]]]
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Amigos/Amigas
Here is some commentary by John Harrington, the former chair
of our
campus GE&B Committee. [He has been replaced by Doug
Keesey who is
coming up to speed on this issue] The other person being
copied by John
is William (Guillermo or "Memo") Martinez the
chair of our Modern
Languages Dept.
It's ironic that although Kathy is taking all the heat
for this resolution, the initiative came from this campus
and initially
from John and Memo both of whom are concerned about the
integrity of the
GE program as should we all.
Sender: John Harrington
<jharring@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu>
From: John Harrington
<jharring@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu>
To: dkeesey@calpoly.edu,
rgooden@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu,
wmartine@calpoly.edu
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Doug asked me for comments on the exchange over changing the
CSU policy
governing foreign-language study in General Education. I tried a longer
version and decided that not even you guys would bother
reading it, so
here are what I see as a few key points:
1. Given the
movement of students to and from community colleges and
both CSU and UC campuses, there are clear reasons to
establish both a
level and criteria for GE credit for language study. Given EO595, there
is even more reason to have consistency within our own
system.
2. The CSU
requires freshman to complete a minimum of two years of
high-school language study for admission. By default, the current CSU
policy encourages--and does not prevent--students from
repeating
beginning language study in the same language used for
admission. As
the discussion has pointed out, there is little gain from
encouraging
students to repeat work taken in high school and much to
gain from
policies that encourage further language study. (Look at current
enrollments and it's clear that for far too many students
the first term
of language study is also the last.)
3. While the
nature of the cultural component is clearly the business
of the language programs, GE programs need to verify that
the cultural
component is substantial and reasonably consistent with the
intellectual
content of courses in the humanities or any other area that
might grant
GE credit to language study. (Perhaps a reasonable comparison might be
made with Area A courses. These courses often have an intellectual
component--e.g. literature--but not a sufficiently deep or
broad
component to also allow those courses to provide Area C
credit.) It
seems a stretch to imagine any less than a full year's
university-level
instruction in a second language could equate to the
substance of an
Area C General Education course.
4. It's also
critical that evidence be provided of the substance of the
cultural component.
Because most Area C courses have a focused
intellectual objective and language studies have the
additional (and
primary?) objective of basic-language instruction, it is
logical to
assume (in the absence of very specific and documented
evidence) that
the dual-objective course will take two or more terms to
meet objectives
equivalent to those of a course without a dual
objective. (While one
might discuss the writing or speech components of a course
in the
humanites, one does not hear about "cultural
components" for such
courses because cultural issues are not simply a component.)
5. The
discussion should not be about positions, but rather about how
to bring students into language study beyond the first term
(thus one
assumes/hopes the same number of positions but at a somewhat
more
advanced level).
If one wants to focus on financial questions, it is
dishonest to ignore the cost (and wasted resources) of
allowing students
with two or more years of high-school language study to
enroll in
first-term study in college.
John
dkeesey@calpoly.edu wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Would you like to weigh in on this?
> --
> Doug Keesey
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: RE: FW: Pending resolution on
removing first-term language course s from GE C2 bl]
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:19:42 -0800
> From: Reg Gooden
<rgooden@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu>
> Organization: Cal Poly State University
> To: dkeesey@calpoly.edu,
> wmartine@calpoly.edu
>
> Amigos
>
> Memo you have probably already been inundated with
these concerns--now
> you see what YOU have created? The issue is heating up as you can tell
> and so I plead with you to keep me informed or all our
efforts may come
> to naught.
>
> I was under the impression CSU foreign language
departments would be in
> support of the resolution apparently many are concerned
they will lose
> staffing.
I expected that from the CCs.
>
> I will provide you and Doug with correspondence within
the Academic
> Affairs committee and the CSU Academic Senate, please
let me know how
> things are moving on your end. Do you intend to enter the fray in
> support of the resolution?
>
> Cheerio
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Fwd: RE: FW: Pending resolution on removing
first-term language course s from GE C2 bl
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:30:32 -0800
> From: Bob Snyder <ras1@humboldt.edu>
> To: CSUSenateAcadAffairs@calstate.edu
>
> >From: "Kaiser, Kathy" <KKAISER@csuchico.edu>
> >To: "Frongia, Eugenio"
<EFrongia@exchange.csuchico.edu>,
> > "'Bob
Cherny'"
> > <cherny@sfsu.edu>,
"'Bob Snyder'" <ras1@humboldt.edu>
> >Subject: RE: FW: Pending resolution on removing
first-term language course
> > s from GE
C2 bl
> >Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:00:32 -0800
> >
> >I gues I must plead ignorant on the ? of how the
SFSU campus is seeing the
> >accreditation of the CCC courses are affecting this
move on their campus. It
> >seems quite vaild for their campus to do this GE
focus and not an issue
> >affected by this resolution, since it would only be
in effect for Transfer
> >students who meet their GE C-2 NOT at a CSU, ie.
not at SFSU.
> >
> >>
----------
> >>
From: Frongia, Eugenio
> >>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:42
PM
> >>
To: Blackstone, Sarah; Thorlaksson, Brooks; McNall, Scott; Persons,
> >>
Paul; Kaiser, Kathy; Edelman, Sam; Jackson, Byron
> >>
Subject: FW:
FW: Pending resolution on removing first-term language
> >>
courses
from GE C2 bl
> >>
> >>
FYI. Several key questions are asked here. Many of the concerns are
> >>
parallel to the ones we are expressing in Chico. The system-wide
> >>
discussion is unearthing issues we want to consider very carefully
before
> >>
it is too late. Eugenio Frongia
> >>
> >>
-----Original Message-----
> >>
From: Midori McKeon
[SMTP:mmckeon@sfsu.edu]
> >>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:00
PM
> >>
To: Gretchen Angelo
> >>
Cc: Helia Corral; Joanne Schmidt; Eugenio Frongia; Miguel Dominguez;
> >>
Raul Romero; Maurice Gendron; Yolonda Patterson; Roland Heine; Rosamel
> >>
Benavides; Yoko Pusavat; Claire Martin; Hildebrando Villarreal; Donaldo
> >>
Urioste; Yoshiko Saito-Abbot; Elias Ramos; Edda Spielmann; Trino
Gonzalez;
> >>
Joseph Farrell; Liliane Fucaloro; Margaret Carol Brown; Gerald Carr;
> >>
Walter Oliver; Mirta Gonzalez; Terri Nelson; Edith Benkov; Mary Ann
> >>
Lyman-Hager; Kathleen Kish; Ilona Vandergriff; Dominique VanHooff; Jose
> >>
Cerrudo; John Thompson; Jill Pelletieri; Silva Rolle; Christine
Renaudin;
> >>
Suzanne Toczyski; Enrique Lopez-Contreras; Gretchen Angelo (Sprint);
> >>
Elizabeth Martinez; Midori McKeon; Lew Robinson; David Ross; Teresa
> >>
Bargetto-Andres; William Martinez; Reyes Fidalgo; Curtis Swanson; Tom
> >>
Blair; mcdermid@sfsu.edu; pamelav@sfsu.edu; conco@sfsu.edu
> >>
Subject: Re:
FW: Pending resolution on removing first-term language
> >>
courses
from GE C2 bl
> >>
> >>
Dear Gretchen,
> >>
> >>
Please find attached the letter that the Department of Foreign
> >>
Languages and Literatures at San Francisco State sent to Professor
> >>
Robert Snyder, Chair of the Academic Affairs Committee, Academic
> >>
Senate, CSU on Thursday, February 7 (the date on the letter is
> >>
February 8) by email, to protest against the the AACAS's pending
> >>
resolution AS-2552-02/AA.
> >>
> >>
Our campus is currently undergoing the process of considering all
> >>
undergraduate foreign language courses (including Latin and modern
> >>
Greek) for inclusion in a newly created GE Segment II category E:
> >>
Language Other than English.
Our department immediately responded to
> >>
the news of the AACAS's move toward passing the resolution not only
> >>
because its "blanket" assumption that CC's first-semester
foreign
> >>
language courses do not have an adequate cultural component seemed to
> >>
be unfounded and unsubstantiated, but also because such an assumption
> >>
would seriously undermine this important work now in progress on the
> >>
SFSU campus.
> >>
> >> I
hope the attached letter will inform you and others of our
> >>
perspectives and and be helpful to the discussion on this issue.
> >>
> >>
Midori McKeon, Cahir
> >>
Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures
> >>
San Francisco State University
> >>
(415) 338-7413
> >>
> >>
--------
> >>
> >>
>Dear members of the FLC:
> >>
>Terri Nelson alerted me to this resolution, and I am in the process
of
> >>
>getting more information about it. You might want to read the forwarded
> >>
>messages (below) from the bottom up, so to speak, to follow the
sequence
> >>
of
> >>
>the discussion thus far.
I have also contacted Tom Blair of the CCCFLC.
> > > It
> >>
>appears that this affects transfer courses only, *not* our own
campuses'
> >>
GE
> >>
>courses which are approved on each campus, but obviously that is a
key
> >>
>question. Of course,
such a resolution might well affect our own
> >>
campuses'
> >>
>individual efforts to include FL in GE.
> >>
>
> >>
>I think an important point is that the resolution's rationale for
> >>
omitting
> >>
>the first-term courses is that they don't all include sufficient
cultural
> >>
>content. On the one hand,
I think we would agree that such content is
> >>
>necessary justification for inclusion of FL in GE; on the other
hand,
> >>
>perhaps we need to protest against the blanket assumption that CC
courses
> >>
do
> >>
>not provide such content.
> >>
>
> >>
>I really do believe it is premature to discuss this without more
info,
> >>
>especially input from the community colleges. I just sent out my message
> >>
to
> >>
>the chair of the Academic Senate this morning, and am getting very
quick
> >>
>responses. I think we
should be able to undertake discussion of this in
> >> a
> >>
>few days. I was going
to wait until I got more answers before forwarding
> >>
>the matter to you, but I thought it better to key you in now since
other
> >>
>members have begun to contact me about this.
> >>
>
> >>
>Unfortunately, this is coming up before the next meeting, so any
memo we
> >>
>write will have to be aired and commented through e-mail. That is why it
> >>
is
> >>
>so important to understand the issue thoroughly before we get into
it.
> >>
The
> >>
>full resolution is attached.
I would suggest waiting a few days for
> >>
further
> >>
>information before opening up a discussion on this, but if you do
want to
> >>
>reply immediately, please reply to the entire list.
> >>
>
> >>
>As I get more e-mails from people in the Academic Senate and
permission
> >>
to
> >>
>forward them, I will send them on to you.
> >>
>
> >>
>Gretchen Angelo
> >>
>
> >>
>----------
> >>
>> From: Bob Snyder
<ras1@humboldt.edu>
> >>
>> Date: Fri, 8 Feb
2002 12:27:35 -0800
> >>
>> To:
gangelo@sprintmail.com
> >>
>> Cc:
KKAISER@csuchico.edu, ken_nishita@csumb.edu
> >>
>> Subject: Re: Fwd:
Re: Pending resolution on removing first-term
> >>
language
> >>
>> courses from GE C2
bl
> >>
>>
> >>
>> Dear Professor
Angelo:
> >>
>>
> >>
>> Attached is the
resolution from the Academic Affairs Committee. This
> >>
>> resolution was
motivated by the past and current chairs of the GE
> >>
>> Advisory
Committee. A subcommittee of this
committee, the Course
> >>
>> Review
Subcommittee, reviews GE courses from the CCC system. I will
> >>
>> try to answer your
questions but I am going to copy Ken Nishita, the
> >>
>> current chair, and
Kathy Kaiser, the past chair, and they can correct
> >>
>> my mistakes. I do not serve on this committee and
therefore may be
> >>
>> wrong about some
of the details.
> >>
>>
> >>
>> 1. What was the motivation for this
resolution? Who introduced it?
> >> >> My understanding is that the Course
Review Subcommittee looks at
> >>
>> proposals from
community colleges which are to be approved for GE
> >>
>> transfer in the
CSU and UC. These courses can be approved for just
> >>
>> CSU transfer or
for the intersegmental transfer that lets students go
> >>
>> to either system.
Currently, both systems work with the same language
> >>
>> for what foreign
language courses have to do to be approved for GE,
> >>
>> but the
intersegmental transfer system does not consider 1st term
> >>
>> courses at all and
the CSU transfer system does. The
subcommittee
> >>
>> approves very few
1st term courses for CSU transfer because it feels
> >>
>> they do not have
enough cultural components in them.
They feel it
> >>
>> would be easier to
prohibit all first term, community college
> >>
>> courses, in trying
to achieve the requirements for GE.
> >>
>>
> >>
>> 2. Why does the resolution mention
first-term language courses only?
> >>
>> Would second
through sixth term lower-division courses still be
> >>
>> eligible for
inclusion in G.E.? All other term
courses would be
> >>
>> considered for
inclusion in GE. They may not be
approved, depending
> >>
>> on the cultural component. The reason first-term courses are
> >>
>> mentioned is
because they are the ones most likely for not have a
> > >
>> cultural component.
> >>
>>
> >>
>> 3. At CSLA, for example, our foreign
language courses are in a
> >>
>> separate block -
C4, which is simply foreign languages.
Would this
> >>
>> resolution affect
campuses which have foreign languages in other
> >>
>> blocks than
C2? I do not think that this
resolution affects CSU
> >>
>> campuses at
all. (If I am wrong about this,
Kathy or Ken will
> >>
>> correct me. This is my understanding, but because I
am not on the
> >>
>> committee I am
concerned that I might be wrong. I
realize this is a
> >>
>> very important
point and we need to get it right.) CSU campuses have
> >>
>> their own approval
processes for GE. I think on a campus it is much
> >>
> > easier to get
further input to clarify course content.
The Course
> >>
>> Review
Subcommittee is reviewing courses for all the CCC system and
> >>
>> it is much more
difficult to to oversee curriculum content at that
> >>
>> level of review.
> >>
>>
> >>
>> 4. Is this a binding resolution on all CSU
campuses? I notice that
> >>
>> the wording simply
says "urges." As above,
I do not think this is
> >>
>> binding on CSU
campuses. It is also not binding
on the Course Review
> >>
>> Subcommittee. We are merely urging them to do
this. However,
> >>
>> because this
resolution comes at their request, I have every reason
> >>
>> to think that they
will follow this advice.
> >>
>>
> >>
>> As to procedure
for responding to the Senate, please send a memo to
> >>
>> me or to chair
Kegley. I am chair of the Academic
Affairs Committee
> >>
>> and will lead the
committee in modifying or withdrawing the
> >>
>> resolution
depending on input from the campuses.
This has gone out
> >>
>> to all campuses
for input. I apologize for
overlooking your group in
> >>
>> seeking
advice. We would be very
interested in you input on this
> >>
>> matter. Do you know if there is a similar group
at the CCC level?
> >>
>> If there is,
please let me know and I will contact them. I know that
> >>
>> we are sending the
resolution out generally to the the CCC system,
> >>
>> but I do not think
we are sending it directly to any councils.
> >>
> >
> >>
>> Thanks for your
input and if there are any other questions I can
> >>
>> answer, please let
me know.
> >>
>>
> >>
>> Bob Snyder,
> >>
>> Humboldt State
University
> >>
>>
ras1@axe.humboldt.edu
> >>
>> (707) 826-5760
> >>
>>
> >>
>>
> >>
>>> Bob and Kathy-
can you please respond to these questions. Thanks.
> >>
Jackie
> >>
>>>
> >>
>>>
jkegley@ccsub.edu writes
> >>
>>>
> >>
>>> This item was
brought to our Academic Affairs Committe from a
> >>
>>> representative
on the IGETC Committee (Intersegmental GE Transfer
> >>
>>> Curriculum
). I will forward your questions
to the chair of our
> >>
Academic
> >>
>>> Affairs
Committee (Robert Synder, CSU, Humboldt) and Katy Kaiser, CSU
> >>
>>> Chico, the
person who initiated the issue.
> >>
>>>
> >>
>>> Jackie Kegley
> >>
>>> Jacquelyn Ann
K. Kegley, Chair
> >>
>>> Academic
Senate, California State University
> >>
>>> Professor of
Philosophy
> >>
>>> California
State University, Bakersfield
> >>
>>> 9001 Stockdale
Highway
> >>
>>> Bakersfield,
California 93311-1099
> >>
>>> 661-664-2249
> >>
>>>
jkegley@csub.edu
> >>
>>>
> >>
>>>
gangelo@sprintmail.com writes:
> >>
>>>> Dear Dr.
Kegley:
> >>
>>>>
> >>
>>>> I am the
current president of the CSU Foreign Language Council and
> >>
am
> >>
>>>> writing to
ask if you can give me more information on the resolution
> >>
>>>> pending
> >>
>>>> to remove
first-term language courses from the GE C2 block. One of
> >>
our
> >>
>>>> members
sent me a note about this, but I do not have complete
> >>
information
> >>
>>>> on
> >>
>>>> it. Obviously, this is a matter that would
concern our membership
> >>
>>>> greatly,
> >>
>>>> so I would
like to get as much background on it as I can
> >>
>>>>
> >>
>>>> Could you
answer the following questions or let me know whom I
> >>
should
> >>
>>>> contact
about them?
> >>
>>>>
> >>
>>>> 1. What was the motivation for this
resolution? Who introduced it?
> >>
>>>>
> >>
>>>> 2. Why does the resolution mention
first-term language courses
> >>
only?
> >>
>>>> Would
> >>
>>>> second
through sixth term lower-division courses still be eligible
> >>
for
> >>
>>>> inclusion
in G.E.?
> >>
>>>>
> > >
>>>> 3. At CSLA, for example, our foreign
language courses are in a
> >>
separate
> >>
>>>> block -
C4, which is simply foreign languages.
Would this
> >>
resolution
> >>
>>>> affect
> >>
>>>> campuses
which have foreign languages in other blocks than C2?
> >>
>>>>
> >>
>>>> 4. Is this a binding resolution on all CSU
campuses? I notice that
> >>
the
> >>
>>>> wording
simply says "urges."
> >>
>>>>
> >>
>>>> We
certainly do not see our goal in our courses as merely "language
> >>
skills
> >>
>>>>
acquisition," but as an introduction to the cultures of other
> >>
countries,
> >>
>>>> an
> >>
>>>>
understanding that goes hand-in-hand with the ability to communicate
> >>
with
> >>
>>>> other
people in their own languages. Our
Council will certainly
> >>
want to
> >>
>>>> send a
memo about this issue to the Academic Senate. That is why it
> >>
is so
> >>
>>>> important
to me to get a full understanding of the resolution before
> >>
>>>> addressing
it. Once we draft such a memo,
what is the procedure for
> >>
>>>> sending
> >>
>>>> it to the
Academic Senate?
> >>
>>>>
> >>
>>>> Thank you
very much for your time.
> >>
>>>> Sincerely,
> >>
> >>>
> >>
>>>> Gretchen
V. Angelo
> >>
>>>> President,
CSU Foreign Language Council
> >>
>>>> Associate
Professor of French, CSLA
> >>
>>
> >> >